Limited in authority, OPCW finally allowed to collect some evidence — But is it too little, too late?
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Political WorldView Podcast: Syria Special — Assad’s Chemical Attacks, the US-UK-France Strikes, and What Happens Now
After 18 days, inspectors have finally reached the second chemical attack site in Douma, near Syria’s capital Damascus.
Using helicopters, the Assad regime’s air force struck twice on April 7, first with chlorine and then with chlorine and a stronger agent, according to witnesses and local medical staff and first responders. An estimated 85 people were killed within hours, and hundreds were injured.
The assault succeeded in forcing the surrender of Douma, the last town in the East Ghouta area which had been held by the opposition since 2012. Tens of thousands of people were forcibly removed to northern Syria in the following days.
Russia has prevented the inspectors, from the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, from attributing responsibility for the attacks. Both Moscow and the Assad regime delayed any visit by the team while Russian personnel reportedly removed and disturbed evidence and a Russian-led campaign spread disinformation about the mass killing. Inspectors finally reached one of the sites earlier this week.
Despite the possible destruction of much of the evidence, inspectors will try to use environmental samples and biological testing of victims and survivors to establish the nature of the attacks. The material will initially be taken to the OPCW’s laboratory in the Netherlands and then sent to affiliated laboratories for examination.
In case you missed it: #OPCW Fact-Finding Mission (FFM) team visits second site in #Douma, #Syria. Press Release: https://t.co/o9UTa7n07G pic.twitter.com/xxJBDYgSfq
— OPCW (@OPCW) April 25, 2018
Continuing its campaign to pre-empt any findings, the Russian delegation to the OPCW will hold a briefing on Thursday in which will present “some Syrians to speak about the reported Douma incident”.
Those Syrians are likely to include medical personnel, who were warned in interrogation by Russian personnel to deny any chemical attacks occurred and then subsequently displayed on Russian State media. The leading outlet Russia 24 has also featured staged interviews with residents, including an 11-year-old boy who was seen crying in hospital on the night of the attacks.
The OPCW criticized the Russians on Wednesday for not allowing inspectors to first speak to the purported witnesses, but said the briefing would proceed.
“The FFM [Fact Finding Mission] will continue to carry out its independent and impartial mission based on interviews with relevant people, its findings from the site visits, analysis of the sample results, as well as any other information and materials collected,” a statement said.
Donors Pledge $4.4 Billion, But Fall Short With US No-Show
International donors pledged $4.4 billion in emergency aid for Syria and its neighbors on Wednesday, but fell short of the UN target for 2018 after the US failed to offer any assistance.
UN officials continued their warnings of a “death trap” and crisis for the displaced, with a possible pro-Assad assault on Idlib Province in northwest Syria, home to about 2.5 million people.
Jan Egeland, the humanitarian chief for Syria, said:
What I fear is a very cruel battle engulfing Idlib. We cannot accept the war moves towards what is essentially a gigantic refugee camp.
There have to be talks to spare the civilians from the fighting.
Members of the European Union offered most of the money for this year and $3.4 billion for 2019-2020. The total was far less than the $6 billion in 2017.
The Trump Administration has sharply cut its foreign aid commitments. Earlier this month Donald Trump, who has spoken of a full withdrawal of US forces from Syria, ordered the suspension of $200 million for stabilization projects in the north of the country.
UN Emergency Relief Coordinator Mark Lowcock told a news conference:
A number of important donors have not yet been in a position to confirm their financing for 2018. That includes the United States, which has been providing more than $1 billion a year to Syria and the region in recent years.
why in the hell are we giving any money to Syria?
There is a logic to it, as long as it doesn’t go through the Syrian government and is strictly humanitarian.
Money is not being given to Assad. It is given to non-state organizations offering humanitarian aid to the Syrian people attacked, tortured, and terrorized by Assad and Russia.
It is given to non-state organizations offering humanitarian aid to the Syrian people attacked, tortured, and terrorized by Assad and Russia.
Wrong. The tunnels built under Eastern Ghoutta would have cost a fortune.
You really believe that JaI goes to the labour pool and negotiates a contract with a contractor to dig a tunnel and pay them according to minimum wage legislation, including worker’s comp and pension and unemployment benefits? Are you stupid? These are people who are starving and being bombarded. They will dig a tunnel with their bare hands if necessary. Please stick to fake news and try not to argue as it would insult our intelligence.
What a pathetic reply. Maybe this makes it in your top bs hit list of all time.
No attack, no victims, no chem weapons: Douma witnesses speak at OPCW briefing: https://www.rt.com/news/425240-opcw-russia-syria-douma-witnesses/
“Witnesses of the alleged chemical attack in Douma, including 11-year-old Hassan Diab and hospital staff, told reporters at The Hague that the White Helmets video used as a pretext for a US-led strike on Syria was, in fact, staged.”
Syria, Russia present witnesses of ‘staged’ gas attack: http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/04/26/559796/Russia-Syria-Douma-OPCW
“Syria’s deputy representative to the OPCW Ghassan Obaid said the witnesses revealed “the false of allegations and lies of Western countries about the allegations of chemical use in Douma city.” He further said that Syria had sent more than 100 letters to the OPCW on terrorist groups’ plan to use chemical weapons in order to blame the Syrian army. “We provided specific information with coordinates of the location of terrorists’ chemical weapons stockpiles,” Obaid said, adding that the Syrian army had found a large militant warehouse in Douma containing chemical, toxic and explosive materials.”
I’ll be speaking about this Russian show in an interview with Al Jazeera English just after 10 pm British time tonight.
If the attack video was staged, it is rather simple to tell from the nature of the video whether it was real, with real effects, or just a bunch of kids pretending to be suffocating.
So Razmjoo – you never answered my question on the Farsi language – which you clearly do not speak. Why do you insist on pretending that you are Iranian? What do you gain by that? Is it that on other discussion boards you can pretend that Iranians hate America, and that Iranians love Islamic fascism?
If the attack video was staged, it is rather simple to tell from the nature of the video whether it was real, with real effects, or just a bunch of kids pretending to be suffocating.
The symptoms of hypoxia and athsma are consistent with what was seen in the video. The only aspect that was staged was the children being doused with water.
I can guarantee that if you place any child in a chaotic environment with adults screaming about gas and them shower them with water they will either respond with a stunned reaction or start crying.
Razmjoo you are wasting your time. You can keep posting non stop russian propaganda every second but you will not impress nor change anybodys point of view in here. Just saying.
In my experience, sites devoid of dissenting opinions and lacking debate quickly become boring. In fact, much as you and others believe you would prefer that us non believers went away, you would miss the discussion and exchange of ideas.
There is no debate here. You spread blatant disinformation and propaganda(not to mention moronic conspiracy theories). That’s not a debate. It’s a bunch of bullshit.
There is no such thing as a debate with people like you. Yours is just a pile of propaganda rubbish and piss poor contents.
When are you going to get over the weakness of the US effort to bomb Syria and 71 missiles being shot down
Thank you for proving my point. LOL
Go to bed Andre please……and dream. The thing you do best.
Just too let you know Caligola, I am praying for your speedy recovery.
Go install your window shades instead of spending 12 hours a day posting Kremlin talking points and false narratives. For heaven’s sake, for just one day, have a life.
We just installed curtains to 6 levels of an office tower and over 300 shades to another building this week Kazemi. Some of us can chew jump and walk at the same time.
Don’t congratulate yourself. You are not a “dissenting opinion”. You get your orders every morning from the factory manager, on your 12 hour shift. Don’t elevate yourself to our level. You have no independent opinion, much less a dissenting one.
When Putin, Assad and co are finally tried for war crimes, I hope that the trolls are tried as accomplices to their crimes. It may take years for retribution the way things are going but it will happen.
I hope Bush, Blair, Clinton, Netanyahu, Olmert, MBS and Abdullah are also tried for war crimes
You’re doing it again. But whatabout……but whatabout…..but whatabout. ***Sigh*** Pathetic. Just pathetic.
You are not concerned with morality or human rights, just punishing anyone for daring to stand in the way of US hegemony
No, actually I’m more concerned with your constant and sad whataboutism meant to pathetically deflect attention away from the largest chemical weapon attacks in the 21st century among other horrific abuses such as torture, intentional starvation, etc. You don’t seem to realize that it doesn’t fucking matter what other countries have done. It doesn’t excuse the current crimes committed. Hegemony? LOL. I don’t give two shits about hegemony. To me that’s just a word used by Russian/Syrian apologists to excuse the gross war crimes committed by them.
You should be outraged over the fact that Obama sealed the report on CIA torture and that the US is helping Saudi Arabia starve 20 million Yemeni people.
You don’t seem to realize that it doesn’t fucking matter what other countries have done.
You don’t seem to realise that it all matters Kevin. I agree it doesn’t excuse the current crimes committed.
Hegemony? LOL. I don’t give two shits about hegemony.
Of course you care about hegemony, though you probably don’t realise it. You are obsessed with US domination and supremacy. That’s why the only war crimes you pretend to care about are those committed by countries not aligned with the US.
Why Clinton? For saving 10,000 Libyan lives in Benghazi when Qaddafi was razing the city?
The British government issued a report that claimed there was no intelligence to support the claims 10,000 lives were threatened and that Cameron lied
No citations?
Here is your citiatioin:
“The proposition that Muammar Gaddafi would have ordered the massacre of civilians in Benghazi [which was the basis for the West’s war to overthrow Gaddafi]was not supported by the available evidence. The Gaddafi regime had retaken towns from the rebels without attacking civilians in early February 2011 ….Gaddafi regime forces targeted male combatants in a civil war and did not indiscriminately attack civilians. More widely, Muammar Gaddafi’s 40-year record of appalling human rights abuses did not include large-scale attacks on Libyan civilians.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/28/the-tangled-web-of-foreign-wars-and-terrorism
No one said that Qaddafi would massacre civilians. That is a red herring, you idiot. What I said that the invasion of Benghazi and the resistance could have easily killed 10,000 civilians. That is the 2nd largest city. Thousands died in smaller Misrata and it was not even invaded.
What the west must do is make sure all internet ties to Russia goes through a central server where they can see what messages and posts are coming from which IP addresses, and then ban those IP addresses that are identified as fake narratives. Also disable proxy and VPN servers that service Russia. This way the trolls will have to go and find an honest job, if they want to feed their families.
These trolls get paid like 20% of the minimum wage in the west, so they cost Putin and Prigozhin almost nothing. They are cannon fodder and serve the program of the oligarchs, Marxists, and west-haters.
Electric buses and cars have killed oil demand by about 2,000,000 barrels a day. Once this increases to 10M barrels, Russia will feel the financial pinch, and these trolls will be out of a job.
What the west must do is make sure all internet ties to Russia goes through a central server where they can see what messages and posts are coming from which IP addresses, and then ban those IP addresses that are identified as fake narratives.
Do you even understand what packets are and how they work? Do you think every web site you visit, tweet, email, comment is comprised of a single file? And what are you going to do about Russian trolls operating outside the borders of Russia? How do you plan to police this. How do you plan to disable proxy and VPN servers? Do you not even realise that hackers and IT wizzards are always one step ahead?
None of this is going to make the fundamental problem go away – the fact that all governments lie and that the public no longer trust what the government tells them.
A better idea woudl be to save your energy and work on putting an end to government lies and lobbying for the press to get back to doing their job and holding politicians accountable rather than acting as government stenographers.
Andre says: “Do you even understand what packets are and how they work? Do you think every web site you visit, tweet, email, comment is comprised of a single file?”
Packets go through a router. If only one router is allowed to connect to Russia, then all packets will have to go through that router and can be sniffed. Stick to installing window shades, will you?
Andre: “And what are you going to do about Russian trolls operating outside the borders of Russia?”
Good question – you surely know how to defeat the system and maintain your income from Prigozhin?
“How do you plan to disable proxy and VPN servers?”
VPN packets are identified either by port or by header. So they can easily be filtered. Proxy servers, even of the infected variety can be identified over time and filtered.
“Do you not even realise that hackers and IT wizzards are always one step ahead?”
This is the stupidest argument of all. Why develop a vaccine when the virus can mutate, you will say. 😀 Do you realize that government and private cyber experts are far more capable and knowledgable than all your 2-bit minimum wage Kremlin hackers are? How will you send a packet through this single router without being detected?
“None of this is going to make the fundamental problem go away – the fact that all governments lie and that the public no longer trust what the government tells them.”
All fascist / communist governments like Russia and Venezuela lie. Democratic governments are under scrutiny and accountability at all times and try not to lie, and rarely would lie.
Based on ther going rates to you cite, there is no way Icould maintain my income from Prigozhin.
VPN packets are identified either by port or by header. So they can easily be filtered.
Not if they are encrypted.
Do you realize that government and private cyber experts are far more capable and knowledgable than all your 2-bit minimum wage Kremlin hackers are?
Where do you think these government and private cyber experts get their recruits from? 🙂
All fascist / communist governments like Russia and Venezuela lie. Democratic governments are under scrutiny and accountability at all times and try not to lie, and rarely would lie.
Accountability from whom? The reason the US government was able to lie true country into every war since WWII is because the entire apparatus was complicit. As Noam Chomsky pointed out,
“Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media”
“Not if they are encrypted.”
You cannot encrypt the port. And you cannot encrypt a VPN header or it will not go to a VPN server. And if you try to encrypt a captive proxy server, then the router will disallow encryption and filter them out. Simple. Nothing is allowed to be encrypted coming out of Russia.
More truther conspiracy theory. You realize a lot of stuff you say is based on stupid childish conspiracy theory?
BarleyBill says………”I hope that the trolls are tried as accomplices to their crimes. It may take years for retribution the way things are going but it will happen.”
Scott has his chuckles, this one by BarleyBill is mine.
Douma hospital staff deny a chemical attack, claim they would have been affected: https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/989544728688504832
Welcome to the show, everyone….
If a small amount of sarin is mixed with chlorine, it would reduce the chance of doctors being contaminated when treating the victims. It is not the same as when sarin in its pure form is released. Assad’s R&D team are known to research exactly such delivery mechanisms, that can go undetected under the radar.
If a small amount of sarin is mixed with chlorine, it would reduce the chance of doctors being contaminated when treating the victims.
If a small amount of sarin is mixed with chlorine, it would reduce the chance of victims being affected by the Sarin at all. In fact, chlorine being a powerful oxidising agent would mean that the Sarin would quickly be degraded.
You don’t know that. What is your evidence that chlorine will react with sarin rendering it non-toxic? Stop making things up, and stick to installing window shades when you have no expertise in the sciences.
Sarin is so toxic that even a milligram amount can kill a person. You can’t never dilute it enough.
And then what makes you think that the agent is sarin? Have you heard of VX? And a dozen other agents? You know for sure that chlorine will neutralize all these agents? Dunning-Kruger Effect.
You are the one making things up. I have a degree in chemical engineering and a post grad in nuclear science. I have worked in the field of nuclear science and for a chemical production company that included working with organo phosphates.
Chlorine is one of the most powerful oxidising agents that is safe to handle in small concentrations. The minute it comes into contact with an orani phosphate, it would immedictalry degrade it. Organo phosphates even degrade when they come into contact with water treated with chlorine.
Sarin is so toxic that even a milligram amount can kill a person. You can’t never dilute it enough.
That debunks yout earlier claim that true reason it didn’t affect the doctors was because it was diluted by chlorine.
And then what makes you think that the agent is sarin? Have you heard of VX?
No evidence of VX either.
Hahhaah — first you tell us you are a window curtain installer now you have a master’s degree in nuclear science.
Wrong again. Site me a paper on chlorine reaction with sarin.
Wrong – minute amounts of sarin can kill when inhaled, but cannot contaminate the clothes to the extent that it kills the doctor.
Yeah you have a degree in chemical engineering but you don’t know how to spell oxidize. Stop lying.
Editor: Out of curiosity, is the Syrian government to blame for the OPCW team arriving 1 week after the incident? Is that part of the “18 day delay”? And how why do you think it might be “too late”? Are you suggesting that the sites have been sanitised and all traces of an organophosphate removed?
In the real world, there is such a thing as “mobilization”. Plus the UN needs to give OPCW a mandate – and thanks to Russian vetoes, and diversionary tactics to disempower the OPCW, and telling the OPCW that they cannot visit all the affected sites, it takes times to get the boots on the ground.
Scott , I’m guessing that efforts have been made to clean up the site and intimidate witnesses. However, the attempted cover up will be obvious and not completely successful.
The Russians know this. Is delaying the inspectors and weakening their mandate aimed primarily at putting distance between the event and proof, and blunting its impact on the long-run news cycle?
In other words, are they counting on short attention spans?
Woody,
Russians will try every diversionary tactic possible — that is why the “witnesses” from the staged interviews are being put before OPCW today.
S.
There is no greater diversionary tactic than bombing first and asking questions later. If F.U.K.U.S. were serious about conducting an investigation, they would have waited for the outcome before taking action.
“After 18 days, inspectors have finally reached the second chemical attack site in Douma, near Syria’s capital Damascus.”
Correction: The OPCW inspectors arrived in Damascus on April 14th. A reconnissance team was sent in three days later to assess the security situation. 4 days later, the fact-finding team entered Douma to inspect one of the two suspected sites. Another 4 days later, they entered Douma again to visit the second site.
“Using helicopters, the Assad regime’s air force struck twice on April 7, first with chlorine and then with chlorine and a stronger agent.”
There is evidence of an aerial assault on rebel positions in Douma, one of many over several days. That much is not denied.
The point of this correction is … ?
….nothing, zero. As usual.
And all the days that Russia delayed the mission at the UN?
Russia delayed nothing. It was a the US that vetoed 2 resolutions.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-syria-apos-captured-125154933.html
.
There is a photograph in this article which supposedly shows Assad’s air defence rockets taking off. I have seen this photograph several times in different articles and have always noticed how these ‘rockets’ fly in absolutely straight lines. Maybe I am misinterpretating the photograph and it actually shows the incoming Tomahawks. The caption is not specific. Has anybody seen an analysis performed on this photograph?
The photo showing trajectory of two anti-air Syrian missiles – the one in the foreground looks legit, and displays a bit of curvature. The far one, as you say, is suspicious being absolutely straight. Also the tip of the trajectory should be fainter as the missile is moving at a much higher speed.
Also the photo implies that both missiles were fired at exactly the same moment. This is hard to believe as it would be rather improbable.
And if the Tomahawk is ground-hugging, why are the SA missiles flying into the stratosphere?
More video footage of Tomohawks being blown out of the sky
https://youtu.be/vfC7IvWCG_M
The whole thing is a propaganda narrative for the idiotic Russians to save face after their foolish bluff was called. Whatever happened to sinking US ships if they attacked Syria? LOL. Not a single missile was shot down. Period. And a night time video shot God knows when showing something blowing up in the sky doesn’t prove shit. The claim is laughable and only kremlinbots believe it.
If you ask a cognitively challenged troll, he would say WWIII is about to start. LMAO
The whole thing is a propaganda narrative for the idiotic Russians to save face after their foolish bluff was called.
It was the US who’s bluff was called. They threatened an overwhelming and devastating response and all we saw was a glorified fireworks display. The Pentagon all but admitted that pulled back the extent of the attack because they were fearful of a Russian response. In fact, we know that the US and Russia were in talks leading up to the attack where both leaders agreed to an arrangement where they could both end up saving fave.
There is no way the US needed 105 missiles to hit 3 modest targets. 71 missiles were shot down. No surprise given that Tomohawks are 30 yr old sub sonic tech.
Lol – there is no glow of Tomahawk rocket fire. There is nothing there. There is no trail of firing debris of the Tomahawk falling to earth. SA missiles self-destruct when they run out of rocket fuel. You should know you are conned. It is called the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
There is no glow of Tomahawk rocket fire.
Why woudl there be a glow? Cruise missiles are powered by jet engines. Once the cruise missiles assume their cruising altitude and trajectory, they don’t give off any glow.
There is no trail of firing debris of the Tomahawk falling to earth.
Why would there be a trail of firing debris? The missile is taken out by shrapnel from the intercepter missile.
SA missiles self-destruct when they run out of rocket fuel.
Wrong. They simply fall to earth.
Half the missiles fired were rocket powered and not jet powered. Powerful jet motors also have a glow.
SA missiles do self destruct otherwise they can destroy stuff on the ground or become a de-mining hazard. Also, they want to make it look like it was a success.