Amid the furor over Secretary of State Rex Tillerson’s alleged remark in July that Donald Trump is a “moron” — a claim backed up by multiple sources and not denied by Tillerson — I spoke with Monocle 24’s The Globalist on Thursday morning about the wider significance.

The discussion talks about the immediate context of the “moron” remarks and of broader disputes between Tillerson and Trump over Iran, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, and the handling of the North Korean crisis. It then explains why the Secretary of State may not resign because “nobody wants to leave Trump alone in the White House” — and why Tillerson and not Trump is to blame for disarray in the State Department, including many unfilled positions.

Stick around for a stinger in the closing question: if Tillerson did leave, who would take over?

Listen to Discussion from 16:58